Our Interview With David McLay Kidd

David McLay Kidd is the award-winning architect of Bandon Dunes in Oregon. The completion of Bandon Dunes in 1998 signaled Kidd's emergence as a top international golf course designer. Along with high-profile projects in the English Heathlands and the Big Island of Hawaii, Kidd has also been recently named the architect of a seventh course in St. Andrews, Scotland.

GTI - Many credit Bandon Dunes as your first course as an architect, but that's not entirely true, is it?

DMK- No, I had started work in design straight out of college in 1989. I worked for a UK-based architect and undertook my first project as designer and construction manager. The course is called Colne Valley Golf Club, just NE of London by about 40 miles or so.

The course was a fairly low budget affair, at about a million dollars. I had done my internship a year earlier with Southern Golf Constructors and had gained a lot of confidence and experience in large scale projects so this first 'solo' effort was just the right size for me to really move fast. The course was built in about 12 weeks and we moved about 70,000 cubic yards of earth on that project. Like Bandon, there was no main contractor; just me and a bunch of local machine operators, labourers and suppliers.

I worked on a few more of these low budget projects before joining a Scottish golf development company, providing a turnkey service. As the principal golf architect I worked on projects throughout the world but completed only two.

GTI - How did you get the job at Bandon Dunes? Do you sense that your career is a little charmed, given the opportunity you were given to build your 'first course' on such a dramatic piece of property?

DMK - I first met Mike Keiser, the owner/developer, in 1994. He was 'interviewing' numerous designers, all of whom were more experienced than me and had far broader portfolios. To this day I'm not sure why Mike picked me. There may have been a number of factors, one of which was that I wanted to do a Scottish-style, walking-only, real estate-free, unpredictable course, and so did Mike. Maybe he managed to find fault with all the others he spoke to and since I hadn't done anything he'd seen that maybe lack of experience, in this case, didn't apply. I really don't know, I just know that I was grateful then and I'm far more grateful now!

It's not a well-known fact that the site was far less impressive before the course was built, not because of the topography but because of the infestation of gorse. In contrast to the tame Scottish variety, the type attacking the Oregon Coast does so with a vengeance. It grows 20 feet high and chokes out all other life both plant and animal. It really is a noxious weed. It was only really when we started to clear the gorse that the true 'dunescape' appeared.

A few months before Tom Doak started Pacific Dunes, a huge fire tore through his site and cleared it in a single night, which in hindsight was the very best thing that could have happened. I have often wondered if Tom has a plausible alibi for his whereabouts that evening!

GTI - What was the idea behind incorporating such Scottish features as pot bunkers at Bandon?

DMK- During the three years I had traveled to and from Bandon, prior to construction commencing, I had noticed differences between Scottish and Oregon coastal weather, differences far greater than most people realize. Year-round, Bandon is far warmer, far wetter and far windier. The first two are great for the course and its ability to grow grass and withstand or recover from wear; however the wind causes nothing but problems. The Scottish pot bunker developed over the centuries as a natural response to wind erosion. Some courses that started out with other types of bunkering have gradually seen their bunkers become steeper and deeper due mainly to the effect of the wind.

As the son of a Scottish greenskeeper I'm attuned to the maintenance and the long term sustainability of my designs. I felt that the deeper, steeper bunkers would be the best option. Strategically it also suited my thinking. As a resort/daily fee course in a very windy environment, I wanted to make the fairways wide enough to keep the lesser players having fun so penal bunkering -- in the sense of recovery rather than location -- allowed these wide fairways to be challenging to the better players.

GTI - Did you think Mike Keiser was crazy for paying you to design a course so far from a population base, or did you ascribe to the "if you build it they will come" philosophy?

DMK - Technically, Mike didn't pay me. I was still working for the Scottish company mentioned earlier and received the fee, so I was a salaried employee. In fact, the original deal did not allow me to spend more than a few weeks on site, but realizing the opportunity I told my boss I would stay until he had somewhere else to send me. Eight months later, the course was complete.

I think I'm a natural pessimist, so I thought that even with a fantastic course there was still work to do to keep them coming back. I had been raised in the highlands of Scotland at Gleneagles, where my father still works, and I can tell you that even though the resort is outstanding there are a few really quiet months, and Gleneagles is a lot easier to get to than Bandon. I tried to design and build the course to appeal to the broadest number of golfers, making the once-a-year hacker feel good while challenging the single-digit handicap, and trying to do so in a VERY unpredictable climate. In this way I thought the course had the best chance of success. At the time we were debating whether 10,000 people a year might eventually play the course at $35!!! Today, the course does almost 40,000 rounds at over $150. Mike was debating the merits of even building a clubhouse; a single beer and burger stand would have been a viable option. Kemper Sports Management (the operators) were less affected by the dreamers. They had some pretty pessimistic, worst-case scenarios mapped out.

You also asked my opinion of Mike's sanity. Well, I suppose many of us wondered, but he has proven himself to be an innovator, a trailblazer and a visionary unlike anything that golf has seen since the 1920s, if ever.

GTI - With the acclaim that Pacific Dunes has garnered on a worldwide scale, is it reassuring to see Bandon Dunes still receive high acclaim? (Bandon Dunes was fourth on GolfWeek's recent Top 100 Modern list.)

DMK - It's amazing that two courses next to each other in out-of-the-way Oregon could be 2nd and 4th no matter which way round. The more acclaim that Bandon Dunes Golf Resort garners, the better for everyone who is, or has been, involved in the resort. I'd be happy to see the next course built there do even better and take the number one spot on GolfWeek's list.

GTI - After Bandon you have landed a few high profile projects. Can you tell us about Queenwood? Did your desire to observe classic architectural traditions in the region help you secure the job?

DMK- Queenwood came fast on the heels of Bandon. The developer, Fred Green, had undertaken a number of projects in the US including Nantucket Golf Club with Rees Jones, but this was his first venture overseas. I was invited to walk the site before meeting Fred and this was when it struck me that the course had to be faithful to the heathland golf traditions of the area. Queenwood is a smack in the heart of Surrey and the west London heathland belt that includes Sunningdale, Walton Heath, Woking, Swinley Forest and on and on. 

Many courses had been built in the area over recent years by notable US architects and others, all of which were manicured, predictable, parkland courses. Many of them were big-ticket private membership failures. Queenwood had to be very different. Fred knew this, so my concept to design and build a course faithful to the heathland traditions of the area was preaching to the choir.

The site was a little tight so the routing had to really optimize the potential, creating a course that feels expansive and mysterious by constantly changing direction and exploring the landscape, rather than feeling like each hole was a solider, lined up ready to march. On top of this new routing, we shaped in a course with very traditional squared-off tees, carries to the fairway and classic heather-faced heathland bunkers; they're pretty to look at, but brutal if the ball holds up in the heather.

The greens are probably the most challenging I have ever built. Throughout construction the concept was to use traditional grass blends of colonial bent and fescue, as I did at Bandon. But just before grassing was to commence Fred had a change of heart and wanted to consider the use of the lightning fast new A4 creeping bentgrass. Fred asked my opinion and I told him it would make the greens more challenging. I also worried about sustainability, but the head greenskeeper was comfortable with it so the change was made. I am told that many of the European Tour pros who are members like it as it enables them to practice on super-fast, superbly-conditioned greens year round on a course where strategic position is essential.

GTI - You have another new private course - Nanea - opening this summer in Hawaii. What made this project so different from your prior works? Did the fact that it was to be a private walking course change your approach?

DMK- This project was DIFFERENT alright. I went out to the Big Island of Hawaii for the first time in late 1999, and I was shocked! Barren lava flows down the side of an active volcano! I remember thinking that only in America could such an undertaking be possible. 

The project is the realization of a golfing dream for Charles Schwab and George Roberts. They enlisted me to help create a course on the Big Island that would be created in the tradition of many of the most celebrated private clubs in the US.

The course itself is finished and growing in, the practice facilities are just being completed, and by mid-summer the course should be totally playable, although the official opening maybe some time later.

The owners wanted a course they could walk and play over and over. As skilled golfers, they weren't interested in appeasing the masses of once-a-year resort golfers. This gives me far more freedom as a designer. The members will gain local knowledge fairly quickly, and so every feature doesn't have to be in your face off the tee. The strategy of play can be subtle and complex, all features of the classic old courses in my homeland.

GTI - Despite your successes in recent years, the news that St. Andrews Links Trust had chosen you for their new course must have been a great honour. Can you give us some insight into this project?

DMK- When I heard that the St Andrews Links Trust was to build a 7th course, I, like many golf architects, salivated at the prospect and dreamed of the possibilities. I think every golf architect has a little historian in them, and the chance to be part of the history of golf at St Andrews is a huge privilege.

The site of the new course is almost as close to the town on the east side as the Old Course is on the west. The site runs along a 'bluff' edge for over a mile, about 40 to 60 feet above the sea. The bluff cuts in and out along the coast with jagged rock outcroppings and sea stacks. One particularly good feature is a half moon-shaped bay with a sea stack called the 'Rock & Spindle.' The site covers over 200 acres and gently slopes uphill from the coast, providing views over the water to the 'Auld Grey Toon' (St Andrews), the Links, and across the Estuary to Dundee and Carnoustie.

Currently we are doing preliminary design work, reviewing all of the design parameters of the site, both physical and legislative, and working towards the permitting. With a little luck we may be able to start construction in 2004 which would see the course built for The Open at St Andrews in 2005 but not in play until 2006. This profession certainly teaches patience!

GTI - Which Scottish courses do you most admire and why? Do you find you incorporate styles from these courses in your design?

DMK - Like my musical tastes, I admire lots of courses. I try to find the best in them all, and the vast majority of them have something I admire, and something from which I can glean ideas.

As for Scotland in particular, there are so many great courses that I'm not sure where to start. I think that the passage of time has allowed nature, the greens committee, and greenkeepers to mature and refine many great courses. There are a few that time and mismanagement has conspired against, but many others that probably started out mediocre and are now considered classics.

I am not the kind of designer that creates pastiche holes, robbing pieces or even entire holes from other courses and trying to recreate them in a new location. This is more because my memory just isn't that good, rather than some moralistic point. I take the essence of a course I've played, rather than individual details, and incorporate it into my work. At Bandon I was definitely influenced by my father's course, the Kings at Gleneagles, and its pot bunkers, large greens, wide fairways, dramatic routing and solid, strategic golf.

David and his father at Gleneagles

GTI - Which architect's work (living or dead) do you most admire?

DMK - My profession is filled with insecurity and jealousy, which is surprising for a profession that enables us to travel the world playing a game, playing in the dirt, and being paid pretty well for the 'hardship.' I've heard other architects state that "all the good ones are dead" when asked the same question, but I think that's because only then do the dead ones stop competing for commissions.

I admire all the usual 'dead' suspects: Mackenzie, Ross, Tillinghast in the United States, and Old Tom Morris, Colt, and Braid from my side of the water. I am sure that they were not so affected by the state of the modern game and the pre-conceived ideas that exist in golf, allowing them to think freely and create unique and quirky designs that are marveled at today but rarely imitated.

There is however a small number of architects, whom I would like to include myself with, that are less affected by the formulas of golf design and are prepared to create controversial courses and stand by them. Pete Dye almost certainly started this renaissance in golf design, and others have followed to a greater or lesser extent.

GTI - Thank you for your time.